tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post3528343548072505253..comments2023-09-03T05:52:27.906-06:00Comments on The Magical Witch: How big is the Golden Dawn market part 1Morgan Drake Ecksteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09258538066497554895noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post-56246194711923276792011-08-30T11:56:04.875-06:002011-08-30T11:56:04.875-06:00I am surprised by the numbers. I thought that ther...I am surprised by the numbers. I thought that there were much more Golden Dawn members worldwide based on memberships of the Hermetic Order of the Temple of Starlight. <br /><br />However,I think that what I experience in the Netherlands will probably be similar to what happens in other groups: and that is that is the question how to define a 'member'. Here people come from 'somewhere'. That can be Boeddhism, Reiki, Wicca ... you name it. They join for a couple of years and then continue their own spiritual path. <br /><br />There is a lot of difference in the intensity of commitment, varying from the interested reader to the commitment of the second order.<br /><br />I think that the potential interest could increase when the publications would connect more to the interest of the non-initiates. <br /><br />The initiates can learn better within the orders. The non-initiates are the ones to decide what they are going to do spiritually and where they are going to spend their time. At this moment they are still choosing Eastern Traditions over Western Traditions. They are choosing masonary,rosicrucianism over the GD Tradition. <br /><br />It think that it is really interesting why this is so.<br /><br />In LVX<br />Ina Cüsters-van BergenHermetic Order of the Temple of Starlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04202957154143371069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post-64256068747226890212011-08-15T12:05:54.540-06:002011-08-15T12:05:54.540-06:00It is also interesting to note that one of the for...It is also interesting to note that one of the forums with a factor of 10 less members than the top one, has on average many more posts of substantial topics. Does that say that the active GDers are in the lesser membership forums, or just that yahoo is not a great place for forums. There are other private forums out there on dedicated websites, there is also facebook and google+ that can have discussions. I know I have a magical circle in google+ and google is planning on implementing a shared circle that can have a membership much like a forum. <br />The posted numbers in the OP are interesting, but I don't think they speak much to the greater picture.Deanna Bondshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16844358331859518015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post-31164649258458349682011-08-07T16:25:31.069-06:002011-08-07T16:25:31.069-06:00The problem with using the Yahoo groups as a metho...The problem with using the Yahoo groups as a method to estimate those interested in the GD is that they provide a very inaccurate view of membership.<br /><br />For example, I a member of most of those Yahoo groups, but I am not a member of any of those particular GD orders. Yet my membership is being counted several times for them.<br /><br />There are also many people I know who are members of the GD or are interested in GD material, but whom are not members of those Yahoo groups. Some don't even use the internet that much at all.<br /><br />So, not everyone who is in a GD order, or who is interested in the GD, is online or in those Yahoo groups.<br /><br />However, to counter that, many of those on those Yahoo groups are not actually members of any GD order. Some are not even practising magicians at all, and some are duplicate accounts, no doubt.<br /><br />Now, if the question is: how many members of GD orders are there, the guess at around 1,000 might be accurate (but really we cannot tell for sure, since those numbers are usually secret and members of Yahoo groups really don't provide any true reflection of that, since membership of them is not required by initiates of those orders).<br /><br />If, however, the question is, as you suggest, how many 'customers' of GD books, etc. are out there, the number is substantially higher than that, as evidenced by the sales of books like Regardie's The Golden Dawn.<br /><br />I'm not sure what you mean by 'verified Inner Order members'. I don't think all those who were initiated into 5=6 are members of Zalewski's Inner Order course.<br /><br />Now, how do you verify an Adept? Who decides they are or aren't? There's the potential for that to go down a dangerous road, as we are all likely to disagree about what qualifies as an Adept. There are many people who hold a 5=6 who, in my eyes, are not really Adepts at all.<br /><br />From my knowledge, there are more than 25 people who hold a 5=6 or higher. Of those who are really qualified, I believe the number to be less, but that's a different topic entirely.<br /><br />As Rufus Opus points out, Inner Order stuff will sell far beyond those actually in the Inner Order. If Zalewski's various Inner Order GD books only sold 25 copies he'd never have been able to publish another one.<br /><br />LVX,<br />Dean.Frater Yechidahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08630272924336872824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post-45206076167864368102011-08-07T15:33:44.343-06:002011-08-07T15:33:44.343-06:00I dont think it is enough to base it on webgroups ...I dont think it is enough to base it on webgroups as some leaders inflate these to make themselves look more popular. I will give you a clue though... the biggest GD group is probably Chic Cicero's with the average temple membership being about 20. He has about 20 temples. However the Second Order is a different matter. Quite rightly the numbers of those members who get into the second order over the last 30 years has amounted to about 60. Remember most of the GD books assume that people are in the Second Order.<br /> As far as books go... my Mathers Last Word book has sold about 400. My talisman book has sold 30 000 worldwide. A lot of these were under translation rights deals. For example 10,000 of them were in Russia and I got the grand sum of $500 in a translation rights. I think there was 5000 in South America which would have netted me about $250. If you write anything about the Golden Dawn you have to face that it is going to be an incredibly small market with a tiny amount of interest. Someone once said everything Nick Farrell did was for money.... however I could earn more writing technology stuff with a lot less effort and hassle than I do writing GD stuff. All I would have to worry about is the occasional Fatwah from Apple fanboys/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18397283594429773853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post-90318913444229420412011-08-07T12:42:01.974-06:002011-08-07T12:42:01.974-06:00I cannot believe I even read this whole post. I su...I cannot believe I even read this whole post. I suppose my question to you is, are you really surprised?Michelle aka Naila Moonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14085797149191658262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post-52831909549496430762011-08-07T10:31:54.334-06:002011-08-07T10:31:54.334-06:00I think that's a fair, or even generous estima...I think that's a fair, or even generous estimate. <br /><br />If you publish inner order stuff though, you'll sell a lot more than 25 copies, I bet.Rufus Opushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10806987441760167537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2594045886586038963.post-33997997171385888932011-08-07T09:24:20.956-06:002011-08-07T09:24:20.956-06:00Hi Morgan,
A very interesting post actually. I be...Hi Morgan,<br /><br />A very interesting post actually. I believe you are quite accurate in the Inner Order estimate, but if you are considering the Market to include books, many Thelemites and other Eclectic practitioners are to some extent interested in the overall picture of the GD, and some of its sub-systems; and I feel the market would be larger for "some books". I believe the estimates for membership are probably very close. Okay, now I'm waiting for 2 separate part 2's! I am quite interested in the Ouija board theme as well, particularly after noting the older post on "cleaning up" after someone had a Ouija board gone awry incident. <br /><br />OlenFr. A.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09100316012648450310noreply@blogger.com