Tuesday, December 27, 2011

Growing abyss between schools of thought

One of the trends that I noticed over the past year is the growing abyss between various schools of thought. In US politics, the gap has grown so wide that I foresee nothing but badness occuring in the upcoming Presidental election (it is the rich and the poor brainwashed by the rich vs. the poor). In paganism, there is growing gap between those building on the past and those building on the concept that it is a newly invented religion. In Wicca, the gap between the secret coven members and the public anything goes witchcraft continues to widen.

What all these situations have in common is that the differences of opinion, perhaps the very bedrock of ideas that the schools of thought are built upon,are creating differences in the language being used so wide that clear communication is being blocked. This communication gap may or may not being

This type of situation is also occuring in Golden Dawn. For years, we have suffered from the difference between the self-initiates and the classically trained and initiated Temple (lodge) members. Golden Dawn has always lost a certain number of people to the fact that active Golden Dawn lodges are hard to find. The couple of work-arounds that has been developed to address the problem are highly questioned in a few quarters.

And for several years, we have seen the growing abyss between Robert Zink and certain members of his Order. This spring, it finally broke the EOGD into two camps; and earlier this month, it became three camps. It looked like a repeat of the Revolt of the Adepts for awhile there.

Then we have the latest and greatest difference of opinion to develop in the Golden Dawn community. There has been a growing abyss growing between the European school of Golden Dawn and those schools that originated elsewhere in the world.

The primary issue is whether or not to accept the existence of an European Third Order---acceptance of such implies that you are willing to follow their public Head and spokesperson, are willing to increase your level of secrecy to the point where all published material are no longer considered valid (including the Mathers material) and all the rituals and lessons have been rewritten to re-install absolute secrecy, and are willing to be expelled if one of your fellow lodge members breaks their secrecy oath. Acceptance also implies that all modern developments of the Golden Dawn system (aka any that developed after the Cipher Manuscript) will someday be abandoned.

Ok, maybe it is not that severe...but given the fact that no one (outside of a couple of selected spokepeople) are able to talk about what is going on in that camp---well, one can only imagine what is really going on.

What one does not need to imagine is the lack of communication between the two schools. For the person who does not keep track of such things, here is the scorecard: The European school insists that all modern developments (before 1888) of Golden Dawn are wrong (including Mathers) and that Golden Dawn needs to be restructured according to the precepts of the original parent organization---all statements of the modern school are labeled flame attacks. The modern school insists that the original parent organization does not exist and has never existed, and that it is a shell game to conceal who is really the Head of the European school---furthermore, the modern school is slightly upset that all new developments must generally be abandoned to return the system to its 17th century glory.

Ok, maybe it is not that severe...but both sides refuse to communicate with the other party until they agree to play by their rules.

Of course, this scorecard summary ignores those of us who believe that the Golden Dawn developed from an earlier system, but that contact with Third Order was broken for so long that the modern Golden Dawn does not have to answer to the European Third Order---in other words, we have been separate systems for a long time and no longer have much in common. To reunite the two schools means destorying one of them---someone has to lose in order for there to be a reunification.

Now, the big question is do I foresee this abyss of difference, and the lack of communication between the schools, going away any time soon? No. In fact, at the point of time, I foresee the pagans, the Wiccans (and witches), and the American political system healing their differences long before the European and global Golden Dawn communities heal theirs.


Rufus Opus said...

I think that the "modern school" folk you're talking about should just treat the whole situation like what it really is: Different Denominations. Christians have had to deal with it since Luther.

It works like this: You agree that you're all under the same umbrella, maybe it's the GD current, maybe it's the vault of C.R., whatever. Then you recognize that they have differences of opinion about what should have been done in your shared system's history, and these days you're pretty sure they've gone nuts, and aren't really likely to accomplish the GW, you know? And then you go back to your own Work.

And it doesn't matter if they agree or not. Do you know how many Methodists gave a shit that some crazy pentecostals said they were going to hell if they didn't speak in tongues? Few, very few, and most of the ones that did care were converts anyway, all defensive of their theology. The born-Christians are just like, whatever.

So what if they say they're the real GD and everyone else isn't? They're GD Baptists, bfd.

Al said...

Does anyone care about these archaic, puffed up idiots in their self-made orders who declare themselves the holders of TRUE knowledge? I mean, really, this isn't 1970 (or even 1990).

Time to join the 21st century!

neognostica said...

Just the humble opinion of the self-initiated: *(Opinion developed after 3 years of reviewing these arguments; from the outside of any structured GD fraternity, whilst magickly working the HOGD system through Ritual Magic Manual in a solitary manner for over 10 years).

With that in mind, In our communuty, and concerning these matters, I agree the most with Morgan Drake and Thomas Stacewics, even though they are sometimes on the oppisite ends of the spectrum.

My opinion of this subject is that it is holding all of us back big-time. There are good points on both sides, if all we want to do is argue.

In alot of ways I see why Uncle Al quit.... As much of an ass as he was, at least he supported "mutual-support" through his thelemic tagline. IMO mutual-support is the ONLY answer that really matters.

From an outside pespective, I have seen zero-ground made on ANY front of the flame war. Humanity, as well as the Golden Dawn Initiate should consider Crowley's ancient recommendation.

I see one of two choices, period.

Jacob's Ladder: Outer Order Planetary Theurgy,(hope for contact, which imo is much better than choice 2)

Mouse's Wheel: Every discussion Ive ever read about the origins of the GD, and the contents of the grade rituals,and possible hidden masters, and their secret-inner-order teachings.


Alucinare Concordia Veritate et LVX Ophion

PS: Like always MDE, awesome writing !

Unknown said...

I dont think there is an abyss of thought within the European Golden Dawn and the rest of the world. I assume you mean Griffins lot?? If you said that there was a growing gulf between Griffin's order and he rest of the universe I would agree, but centering it on the EU is a bit unfair

Imperator David Griffin said...

Care Frater Nick,

Have you still not grown tired repeating silly talking points over and over like a broken record as in the above comment where you repeat your worn out meme of "Griffin vs. the rest of the universe" you have been repeating for nearly two decades now?

Has the time not long passed for such cheap rhetorical tactics - better suited to the world of propaganda and that merely derail real fraternal discourse and scholarly debate?

I for one certainly have better things to do than to go on refuting talking points you and Pat spout over and over "ad nauseum" for yet another decade!

The reality, whether we like it or not, is that traditionalist Golden Dawn orders like the HOGD/AO and the August Order of the Mystic Rose (just to mention two visible examples) will likely never agree on everything with reconstructionist Golden Dawn orders like your MOAA and Pat Zaewlski's OGD.

This, however, is no justification to continue the sort internet sniping contained in your above comment that has plagued the Golden Dawn commmunity for nearly two decades now.

I invite you to abandon merely repeating propaganda-like "talking points" over and to instead engage in sincere fraternal dialogue and debate instead.

The Golden Dawn community has suffered more than enough already at the ahnd of to cheap rhetorical tactics like these.

Let us instead agree to disagree like grown men about the many things that we actually do disagree about, yet nonetheless show the world the Golden Dawn community has outgrown the silliness that has plagued our community for nearly two decades now.

Enough is enough already.

David Griffin

Mike said...

If you were to watch the news every night, you might end up thinking that very little but tragedy happens on a regular basis, but you turn the news off and, so much for that.

I'm with RO on bfd. This is a lot like baptists sitting around discussing pre or post-tribulation rapture. I'm always amazed at how much Mercurian, intellectual arguing goes on in a system designed to get you beyond that.